Lightsiders and darksiders alike all hold the common belief that what they do is what is right. “of course there is the exception” but these morals and ethics are what drive them forward to act upon their thoughts. Just because something that you do is justified in your eyes does not mean that it is with someone else. There will always be someone who disagrees with you, no matter what the opinion is. however, it is the people who take these opinions to the extreme that cause the problems. Just as much as the killer justifies who he has killed and why, the jury will give him the death penalty and call it justice.
Death is death, no matter if you kill for what you feel is for the common good or evil. Hitler felt that he was doing the world a favor, “not that I condone what Hitler did” but none the less millions of people jumped on the band wagon and began killing Jews while trying to take over the world. They felt that they were the superior race of man. They felt that everyone else was flawed and this is what gave them the right to do what they did. Christians feel that they worship the one and true god, and that all other religions are flawed. Because of this they have burned “witches” at stakes and killed countless people in holy wars. All because they had to “save” people from their own wicked ways, and what they were doing was the right thing to do.
With individuality comes ones own opinion, and given a long enough time scale those opinions will conflict. No matter how “normal” the opinion there will always be someone with a different one. No matter how different there will always be someone with a normal or even more different opinion.
I feel that there is no difference between the christian who would fight to uphold his gods laws, the killer who walks the streets, the jury who sends him to die, or the man who tries to save the world. If you want to stand up for something, sooner or later you will hurt someone, and more often than not feel that person deserved it.
Individuality is just that, you are different because you are you. It is hard enough to be who you are and not conform, it is harder knowing that once you are able to be yourself someone one day will hate you for it.
29 comments ↓
There’s only one problem with this. You seem to be equating individuality with morality. One does not necessarily have to have anything to do with the other. The highest moral imperative might not be, “To thine own self be true,” but, “First, do nothing malicious.”
That is not to say, It is not necessary to be utterly true to oneself. Merely that it might not necessarily be right, and that it might not necessarily be wrong.
Morality is concerned with ethics, but also with keeping society knit together. Like it or not, we are a social species, and we can’t survive in absolute solitude without going absolutely barking mad. We evolved the way we did - with a capacity to not just use tools, but to also indulge in abstract, symbolic thought - because we had to invent language to communicate among ourselves, because better communication helped us hunt game. To really be ourselves, and true to ourselves, we therefore need to learn at some point in our lives to balance out need for individuality with our need to be part of a society, and to play by what rules we have established within that society to keep it together.
you go
Well, I do not mean that exactly as it sounds. In other words, very rarely do you meet people that feel they are evil. Each person does what they feel is right, and best. Many psycho killer’s never once thought that they were evil. Likewise, the example of the Inquisition and the Crusades show more instances of where the group felt that what they were doing was morally and ethically right.
We know now, that what they did was very wrong, and there are still many instances of that sort of thing going on now.
However, like you stated, those above groups did not feel they were evil. But to the average observer, they were.
I roleplay many decidedly evil characters and many people question how I do it. Some people have the assumption that because someone is classified as evil, the person in question thinks they are. But, usually the evil person thinks that the good person is the evil one. Simply because their viewpoints are dynamically opposed.
To really decide what is evil, society would like us to look to them. And while we know society is horribly flawed in it’s perceptions of evil, unfortunately, we must suffer the “slings and arrows” of not conforming with society.
Being an individual does not necessarily make one evil, but it can lead other people to beleive that you are. It’s a silly assumption, but we know stereo-types are naughty anyway.
My basic assumption on evil. Do what ye will, but harm no one. As long as what you do, hurts no one else, then if anyone calls you evil, well, you can smack them in the gob. (Not really, but understand what I mean.)
There will never be total agreement on what is considered morally and ethically wrong. We are too diverse of a world for that. Personally, I find that to be our best point. The fact that everyone has a different point of view.
It’s when your point of view starts hurting other people, is when we start coming into the problem.
~Kitashla
Morality and individuality is being criss-crossed here…just as grandpoobah said. However once again you go back to the dark ages when christianity was more like satanism than satanism is today. I’ve read some of your past articles. It seems to me you are disliking christians not for what they’ve done to you but what they did hundreds of years ago. Get over it!!! Not every christian is a pagan hating machine. My own pastor and I both studies Native American Religions.
As for your point… it’s very true that we as human’s rationalize what we do in our minds although to others our behavior could be abhorrent. however what do you say to the person that Con’s other’s into doing things that they do not want to?
Would that be evil or would that be justified… Evil.
If your rationalization involves other people then you are not the boss of the matter. Every person shall have a different view on it. For example: I manipulate a girl into having sex with me… She doesn’t want to but eventually gives in. I rationalize it as if she’s having intercourse with me she must want to inside. She rationalize’s it as that she was forced into having sex…You see there is a difference!!! If I con people into following me as a cult does… They may feel not exactly cosher with it while it is fine with me… However if I threaten them or force my own will upon them… They would respond feeling trapped. One rationalization is not the same as the other…
I hope you check your replies or else I’ll feel really bad that I wrote all of this
I seriously doubt the purpose of faets post was to convey a belief that all christians hate anyone or anything, let alone Pagans. The very nature of the post is pointing out that such generalities are incongruous with the nature of man in the first place, that the beings we are are independent of our own morality as well as that of our chosen faith.
And that aside, individuality so often stems from our morality, so how can we really confuse the two?
I admit I do know faet irl, and thus am more a party to the inner workings of his mind. He is not the type to asign mass condemnations on entire sects of ppl, and he is not entirely mired in the past as you think. It is more that the transgressions of the past are more flagrant and dramatic when compared ot the more insiduous carnality of religion in modern times, and thus make a more noticed-though no more valid-point in discussion. He will happily say that there are plenty of Christians he could call friend, and perhaps your divinely open minded pastor would be one of them, he is just not blind to the incredibly exclusive preachings of the Christian faith as a whole.
I might also add that all this is said from my viewpoint, the viewpoint of a long familial chain of devoutly practicing Christians.
*btw*
I apologize, faet was the last to log into DS on ym comp and I did not realize I was under his anme when I replied. So the last response to anonymous by faet was actually mine. Shit, gonna catch some for that one.
lol your funny next time log in as anonymous before replying to stuff that you r actin’ like u didn’t write…lol
Fury
Do you Yahoo?—www.yahoo.com
Somehow I knew you would just to some peurile conclusion. It’s almost funny. Look through here dim bulb, faet and I are very different ppl, look at our profiles and our sites. Hell, there are ppl in this board who know us both irl, and that we are separate people. Do your homework before you make your idiotic assumptions there hun. *kiss kiss*
I promise not to hold your idiocy against you, I mean hell, any other 3rd grader would have made the same mistake, it’s not your fault.
There is no right nor wrong, but that which our minds make it so…..
(apologies for the fact that this may not be an exact quote)
William Shakespeare
ok, just got here, Bright posted under my name, ha ha ha. That looks so bad! Oh well, even though it is something that i would do i must assure you that i did not write what is above. This is her computer and i use it when i come over. Oh well, enough explanation. Here is to your comment
1. First, I never said that all Christians hate Pagans, i do think that there are quite a few who do, but not all.
2. I do feel that a persons individuality is directly affected by their own morality. I am quite curious how one can think it is not. True they are two different things, but in my opinion they walk hand in hand.
3. I am always up for a good debate, but i don’t like to look back on my posts and try to figure out what i meant in that moment in time. I also try to stay away from reading the comments to my posts because i tend to get slamed alot. Had it not been for the fact my girlfriend (Brigh) read this comment i would never have had the chance to defend my point.
4. I am not quite sure if you were making a valid point in your comment or if you just wanted to slam me. If you have problems with some of the things that i have written, email me and hopefully we can settle them. faet55@darksites.com
5. i write under two names here at darksites, faet55, and mask. Everything that i write under mask is in good jest, and i hope that i have not upset anyone with my posts. I do not feel that christians are any better or worse than pagans. I just happen to poke fun at christians a little more. If you want to know my true views on relegion read the post god and man. It would not let me log in so it did not post under faet55.
6. All of my posts that are opinion based are just that, opinions! I am not saying that my opinion is correct, it is just the way i happen to feel at the time. My opinions change by the moment. I do not feel that i am the boss of the matter at all, and if you don’t like my posts then don’t read them. however if you insist on being a prick, then i suppose you can kiss my ass.
faet55
<<<There is no right nor wrong, but that which our minds make it so…>>>
My question here is, is this Shakespeare speaking as himself, or is this a line written for a character?
Either way, I’m not sure we can just toss around this sort of quote without a little explanation. It’s really not at all saying that right and wrong don’t exist… it’s saying that we have individual perceptions of them.
And, of course, the existence of a particular perception doesn’t necessarily make it valid. Right and wrong actually are absolute values. It’s our silly, shortsighted perceptions of them that tend to muddle us up.
Sardonicus
not you dopey…on the post it says faet55 not your post…and you my either extremely feminine man or very annoying woman please watch who you are caling an idioat. I do have paper to prove my intelligence. But I come on here to Heckle most of the time…what spurred my attention was the whole Jedi Force Light Side- Dark Side thing and how it resembled many a rap song east coast west coast pettiness. There is no light and dark. There is both in all. Even the most gothic…cruxshadows..listen…voltaire humpin’ freak has some light…as does the pope have some sinister darkness. So please watch the insults…
Almost Furious Fury/B>
Do you Yahoo?—www.yahoo.com
Agreed. And Shakespeare was speaking as a character, not as himself. His views on ethics come through a little more clearly in the sonnets - most of which are admittedly concerned with romantic love, but they do presuppose some sort of absolute.
I admit I was in a bit of a mood last night, so my insults were unwarranted. I lowered myself to the level I was accusing you of, and for that I will apologize.
But you were, as I understand it, talking to me. The first response from faet55 to your comment was from me by mistake, and it ticked me off that you were saying I was just him commenting on his own work-or defending it as the case may be. We share a pc essentially, and I did not like anyone making him look petty or unintelligent with my words as the tool.
So that’s that I assume-
I do think that the light side dark side issue was not reference to the nature of men, but more so a humorous reference to the generalization of the Pagan-im-so-dark-and-scary-it-hurts vs. the Christian-i-fairly-glow-with-the-divine-light-so-get-down-and-kiss-my-ass mentalities. Course that’s just my thought.
Ok, gonna go watch Batman with my kids and pretend it’s all good with the world now.
And when you say you have paper to verify your intelligence what are you referring to?
dont you ever shut up? oh yeah, and i think its oh so cute you have sarah writing good things about your posts. i wonder if you still tell her you too are dating? i wonder if she knows about all the other girls you were going out w at the times you dated her? i wonder if she would be so nice as to let you mooch on her computer if she knew…….
Hi Brandi (y)
Hiya hon- Gosh, I am just SO touchead at your concern for the emotional well being of me! Gosh oh goodness, why… you must be a saint in bitch clothing!
Honey pie? I wonder if you’ll do me a favor (I mean aside from dropping from the face of the planet so we don’t have to worry about where your ugly head will pop up next I mean) spell my name right when you talk shit about me and someone I love. K? Good, glad we’re all one big happy family then.
Now-this is over. If you so detest him, why do you read his work, why do you respond? I know it is not out of care for me. Do not ever call my sister about this- ever. Is it a threat, no. I, sad to say, am an adult, I don’t do these games you like to play. You are inciting things here that are hurtful, and you call HIM a monster. Find a mirror sugar plum.
*btw*
And also, no one HAS me do anything. If I write something pleasant about his post(s) it is because I think he is sporting his brilliance for all the world to see again, not because he HAS me do it. I think very highly of him and his mind, it is sad that you can not see him for the man he is and accept him for that. I thought acceptance was what it was all about.
Your life is the poorer for it.
You seem to think I am some kind of moron whom he is playing the fool. I don’t know why u think I am that dull witted. Thus far you have never told me a thing he didn’t tell me himself. So save your expose posts for old episodes of Geraldo ok? I certainly don’t need them.
I have a lot I’d like to say, but last night he repeatedly reminded me to do so would be to put me on even footing with you, and that is a low place indeed. He would prefer it that I ignore you, that you are not worth my time, but when you care for someone you can’t sit there and watch him or her be villified like this, you just can’t.
Great, now there are two of you. Two self-rightous fucked in the head and the face idiots running around ranting.
SaraH, the only one who needs a mirror is you- so u can see the extent of the surgery you might need. You and your bitchy sister. Your just with Jeff because you know you will never do any better than a sell out loser like him.
And Jacob the brilliant…. I notice you dont even respond… maybe because you dont want to try to defend your “feelings” for her where your other women can see??? You need to go the fuck away and leave all of us alone. Why you have not gotten the point that no one wants you around is something i will never understand. Maybe you can go die or something, make all of our lives better.
(No offense, Faet.)
1) I’ve already got a male. Since I prefer females, one male is quite enough.
2) The ego war would be a little too much for both of us to take.
I haven’t said an awful lot of nice things about faet55 - actually, if you’ll look at the past few days, most of my posts to him have been quite curt and have come close to napalming him.
Your attack is awfully personal. Your complaints sound like the complaints of an ex lover. So why don’t you log in rather than posting as Anonymous, if he’s wronged you to terribly? Logging in would give your arguments a lot more bite.
You are getting us mixed up. If you trace the IP address you’ll notice that I am posting from somewhere in Cincinnati, OH.
Aha. So that’s why it’s anonymous. It’s because Sire doesn’t allow trolls to come in and flame-bait, and he’d revoke your posting privileges for making a regular habit out of treating us posters as exhibits at a freak show.
Ha ha. Very funny. You’re such a wag.
my girlfriends name is sara, not you sarah!
1. i’m glad you have a male, i have no intentions of trying to be a second.
2. The ego war would be a little to much, and the drive to where you are would just suck.
I know we have not gotten along, and i just put the sara, sarah thing together…hehehe. You have been quite curt? I did’nt notice!
she is not an ex-lover. She is just some physco bitch who thinks that i’m a monster. I guess i cant win all the time.
faet55
Yep Yep, my faet-:p I know ur jelous.
Hi Sarah, I’m Sara, ever so nice to meet you.
I think it is the current concensus to just ignore the venemous posts of the (SO NOT HIS EX LOVER) Anonymous/Brandy/NataliaRLauraLeigh person. She’s just a very sad, lonely little girl who is just now coming into the realization that she is mocked and disparaged by all her “friends”. She is an object of pity, not scorn now.
I would apreciate not slandering my beloved Natalhia’s name…especially since you have no proof it was her….As soon as someone anonymously posts you jump down her throat….In fact I know it could not have been her because I was on the computer…as I am every night at the time the message was posted…I would appreciate it if you would apologize for the comments that you have made and for telling her best friend that Natalhia made these comment…without proof.I know my words probably dont mean crap to you but they are the words of an honest man….If you can find time to actually think about what you have done you will see that you were wrong …and then try and get past your prides.
As for you not “Playing these games”Sara…you did play them…you played them right back..falling into what this person wanted you to.
As for Faet,You know I can tell when someone is lying and I promise you brother…Natalhia is not….
I take my leave now…..I hope that you will take my words to heart.
Sara…I am quite surprised at you i thought you might have been a decent human being. Why do you have to retaliate and assume???
Assuming this time has made an Ass out of you and most certainly not me. Where Natalia signs on is where my brother John goes online…and at the time in question me and him were on Irc.
Sara you have become quite a bitter person and I hope your children do not gain your idiocy on accusing everyone under the moon about anything that upsets you… If you really trusted My brother Jacob, you would not believe the lies that the anonymous person posted. Now granted someone that you or Jacob knows is responsible…I myself am not neither do I know nor care who did it. You are just as wrong for continuing the mudslinging.
I hope you go back to the care-giving person that I met and not this…
-Zero
*btw* please forgive my previous comment’s they were out of anger none of it is how i truly feel about you or the predicament. Even though this post probably makes me out to be an ass or hippocrite I do not care. I am sorry. I hope yah find out whose did the post.
Love,
Zero (Foeenix)
P.s. Sara no be pissed at Zero
I am glad I got your email first lol, and this post of course. I likely would have gotten upset at the reference to my children and their upbringing. I hope my email to you clears up my standpoint on this.
I only apologize when I want someones forgiveness. If I was wrong, I was. If not, not. Brandi has said too many unfounded and unpleasant words that she HAS copped to for me to worry one way or another if she forgives me. IF her reaction to my posts caused unrest in YOUR life, then to you do I apologize. You are after all my Trover
Can’t have you getting all persnikity on me now can I? 
If I fell into someones game, well, my life-my fall-my post yes? I do not know if it was a false post, or what the purpose was (to further alienate B or to anger me at J), or whatever. Nor do I care at this point. My anger has been on J’s behalf for the most part. I just can’t stand there while someone I love is attacked. If you do in fact love B then I can certainly not fault you for your defense of her here, as we are on the same page there. Notice I did not even respond to this last and most slanderous post, as it was just kind of… well….. put badly. I would have lent credence to the idiocy of the writer by responding, and J has finally convinced me he does not need a champion, and that if it is B than let it be beneath my notice.
Regarding the “tell her B/F” thing. I told Jamie about the post, she read it herself and drew conclusions herself too. Jamie’s anger towards B was not simply drawn from that one post. It was drawn for B calling her and laying a lie about J and I on her, it was about ALL the posts B has made, in response to J’s work, and not. All the emails, and her general overall opinions of B herself. I am very sorry if B thought Jamie was her b/f. Jamie has expressed no real sense of loss, and this knowing that that last post might not have been her. I have not endeavored to sway her either way. Long as B never called my sis with more stories, i was fine with their reationship such as it was. I’m not saying this to be hurtful, not really. Just truthful.
….If you can find time to actually think about what you have done you will see that you were wrong
I’m not fond of that line hon,…. kinda like being spoken down to.
Moving on.
I did not doubt J, where in my posts does it infer that I did? He has been sometimes painfully, sometimes wonderfully, honest about things with me. It is that very reason why I was so incensed by the accusations therein.
I am copying this into your email in hopes of a more speedy retrieval for you.
Note* All words in this post were said with zero sarcasm or nastiness. I just want to be clear. Text can be so misleading at times i know.