This is my first submission, and its probably going to get a lot of negative feedback, hopefully opposed by some positive. Allright here we go…
As I said, I have been an observor of this site for some time, and I have noticed a few tendencies which I can no longer remain silent about.. In writing this.. I’m opening myself up to all kinds of lamblasting from certain persons who shall remain nameless unless specifically referred to below..
1. This is a pet peeve of mine, persnickity people, and unfortunately, although a lot of what he/she has to say (It’s late and i can’t remember just now so no offense), but HeathenDJ seems to take a near sadistic delight in correcting grammatical mistakes of others. Don’t misunderstand me Heathen, I understand your appreciation for the need of knowledge of how our language works… but as I said, you seem to take a near sadistic delight in correcting the submissions of a community you voluntarily joined? can’t we find better uses for your knowledge, perhaps a lengthy series of submissions, i don’t know…that just kind of irks me (I’m sure you can find at least 20 or so on mine, but i don’t honestly care because im writing from the heart).
Secondly, we seem to have a large number of people who come on here and for some reason feel the need to hide their comments behind a veil of annoyminity(sp). These people are either..1. the victims of an unfortunate mistake made by someone’s computer or program.. 2.. too scared of their own thoughts to identify themselves as the originator.. or 3.. ignorant worthless useless wastes of matter and energy…
Third, we seem to have the misconception that professional help can fix anyone.. this is very not true.. i have seen several people who were much worse off after professional help than before..
Fourth, a general observation… we seem to be very critical of each other and defensive of our own ideas. Can we not just accept that we are all goths, but also individuals, with our own definitions and ideas.. and accept this? Is this not what we criticize the outside world for??? and yet we can’t do it ourselves???
Just a few thoughts, not ment to offend but to provoke thought and discussion.. Heathen, i apologize that you were the only person I named, do not think it a personal attack as it was definately not meant as such.. go in peace with the darkness my fellows
Lothar Olyn Black
7 comments ↓
Dear Lothar,
How right of you. As a fellow Hunter of the Night and having grown up gay, psychic and touched by the Darkness, persecution is not a new thing to me. We should all be less critical of each other…and brave enough to stand tall in the moonlight.
Xian
we are ‘persecuted’ or judged daily. in my case, this judgement comes from my own family as well. i can’t stress the concept of ‘being oneself’ enough.
thank-you for bringing it up.
that was me up there. damn.
To all of you who have or are going to write I give you my thanx……for the longest time I couldn’t find any sign that this had been read or even posted…..I came across it tonite, and saw not only had been posted, but it had been replied to, AND THEY WE’RE ALL POSITIVE!!!! I’m impressed, maybe those pissed off words i wrote late one night actually meant something……who knows, I might just write some more……
Lothar….If you have been following along for any length of time, you should understand the WHY of it.
In case it wasn’t clear, I’ll explain, for Sadism is NOT the root of it. Believe me, I derive NO pleasure from it.
We, as a subculture, (Goths), are INDEED persecuted. I have been Goth for MANY YEARS, so I’ve seen it firsthand, as well as reported here all the time. We are viewed as the enemy of society, as “evil”, and “dangerous”. We are also, because of our demonstrably artistic/creative/intellectual/pensive natures, viewed as slackers, and generally ne’er-do-wells.
Unfortunately, we have the “Glaring spotlights” of Columbine and Marilyn Manson upon us. We have become a dumping pool for any kid with an attitude and some money for “Hot Topic”. I believe it is THOSE kids, NOT truly GOTHIC youth, that perpetrate the crimes and perpetuate the “bad” stereotypes. Those kids, (15-65) ARE slackers and ne’er-do-wells, and it behooves US, (or at least,ME, an elderGoth with a modicum of education), to stay clear of these things ourselves, as well as help others to not be absorbed into the pool of sludge.
Have you not noticed, in either replies or BBS issues, where I have met some WONDERFUL and TALENTED people and praised their efforts, if not their spelling? I was not raised around these machines, but I do an okay job of making it do what I tell it to. That takes some effort. To READ as well as TYPE. Some of the people here, regulars, do not remember a day WITHOUT them. It would strike me that the CORRECT way to use them would be as natural as walking. And please, don’t fall back on the “Making a statement about individuality” arguement! To make a statement effectively requires MORE effort than the “norm”, not less… LOOK at the whole debacle of the “crossing” to the new host computer!
If holding ourselves to a higher standard, to and including the way we, (CREATIVE and ARTISTIC that we are…), as a subculture are seen by the rest of society is a crime, then I am GUILTY AS CHARGED.
Goth is my soul. It’s not WHO I am, or HOW I am, or even WHAT I am. It is I AM.
There were Germans who HATED what Hitler did to the good culture and people of Germany.
Italians with NO USE for Mussolini, or Al Capone, for what it has done to the meaning of being Italian.
Chinese who STILL despise Mao, Africans who are VERY glad to see Idi Amin Dada dead and buried.
These people know the degradation of culture.
I’d rather not see my own little SUBculture destroyed by LAZINESS and SLACKING.
You may feel free to reply to me offlist, as is and has been known to all. I do not fancy myself a guru or priest or saint or even sinner. Just old. But it has been my scene for a LONG TIME, and I’d like it to stay my scene for a LONG TIME. And if it becomes a problem being old, Goth, and CORRECT, then the scene has changed, much for the worse….
We are indeed BLESSED to have this place!
If ONE “norm” comes here to flame us, and reads an article written creatively, and WELL, and leaves without a hassle or BETTER STILL! TELLS someone “Hey…I was at a WHOLE SITE of them there Gawths…they’re kinda neat….”
Well……the implication there defies description…
{/ rant}
I hope it helped, and by all means….write some more! (You actually did very well….)
*G*
The Heathen DJ
Actually, I thought this deserved the attention of all who come to see, so I thought that I would take the liberty of replying to it here. First off, i did take offense to one topic, and allthough it is a common trait, I thought it good to remind everyone that we are not the “Norm’s”, we don’t persecute based on stereotypes…..I had no clue you were one of the elder goths….i had placed you as one of the “second gen” (mid 80’s-early 90’s) some of the youth actually are goths…..I personally have been “gothic” all my life, even though in my younger years I showed it less. Allthough 18 is not the age by which all knowledge is to have been gained by any means, I do consider myself a decent gothic.
The stand for individuality was not about the spelling, it was a general comment….I don’t believe that there are specific guidelines about gothic (you must wear these clothes, this makeup, listen to these bands, wear makeup at all, do this, act this way) I believe that gothic is something you are born, and it develops itself along similar lines, but also based on the experiences, values, and thoughts and feelings of the person.
As for your thoughts on the Columbiner’s, i as a high school goth experienced firsthand the results of that one (I still remember being mobbed by the whole school) .The fact that I have a long black western duster doesn’t help, but that was a birthday present from my parents and dates back about 8-10 years prior to the Columbine shootings, and I’m not about to let the actions of a few disturbed kids determine what I will or won’t wear.
As for Marilyn Manson, there are gothics who listen to him, but your not gothic just because you do. He’s not goth, he’s heavy metal with glam elements.
Having read your comments and pondered them for a time, I have developed a conclusion; that we, the “true Goths” must find these bad elements that perpetuate the negative stereotyping that so typically befalls us, and expose these elements for what they are to the rest of the world in an effort to clear our name. It will be a constant effort, and stereotypes are a hard thing to change, meaning it might work and it might not, but I feel we owe it to ourselves, each other, and the Goths who are not yet born to do this.
Comments and thoughts welcome
To get credit from an elder is a thing to enjoy, my thanx to thee……….Lothar Olyn Black
I find your submission an eye opener.Also maybe, helful to some.I hope you do write some more.Pissed or no, Its better to get it out there!